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| OWNER'S PERSONAL INFORMATION |
| Name: Dwight Shackelford |
| Age: 53 |
| Gender: Male |
| Height: 5'11" (180 cm) |
| Weight: 180 (82 kg) |
| Email address: Zydeholic at yahoo dot com |
| City, State, Country: Newark, CA, USA |
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Backpacking Background:
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| I just recently did a 3-day 20 miler (33 k) in
Yosemite with a Sierra Club group. Before that, it had been 20
years since I'd gone backpacking. I'm continuing to do 5-10 mile (8-16 k) day hikes
between backpack trips. I'm now in the process of putting together a backpacking system
with an eye towards light, if not ultralight.
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Product information
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| Manufacturer of Pattern and Instructions: Quest Outfitters |
| Year purchased: 2006 |
| Manufacturer URL: www.questoutfitters.com |
| List Weight of pattern/kit: N/A |
| Listed Weight of finished pack: 16 oz (454 g) |
| Pack Weight as constructed: 11 oz (312 g) |
| Additional information: Quest Outfitters manufactures the pattern
originally developed by Glen Van Peski, currently of Gossamer Gear.
Instructions for the pattern and pack are also available on the
Gossamer Gear website.
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Field conditions where finished pack was used:
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| Butano State Park - atmospheric temperatures 60-65 F (42-47 C),
altitude 200-700 ft (60-200 m), trail conditions packed dirt, mud and asphalt. |
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Product Description:
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|
I received a pattern and instructions from Quest Outfitters
(www.questoutfitters.com) for the G4 pack.
I also ordered the whole kit - fabric, notions, etc. This is an ultralight frameless
backpack that has been around in the community for several years. The design allows the wearer to create a "frame"
by folding a sleeping pad up and inserting it into some mesh panels on the back of the backpack.
It has both shoulder straps and a waist belt. Internal capacity is stated at 3100 cu in (51 L).
The external mesh pockets and extended collar are stated to be an additional 1500 cu in, (25 L) for a total of 4600 cu in (75 L).
I have no way of verifying this.
After I bumbled around messing up some of the more expensive fabric I got from Quest,
I decided to do an initial prototype with some $1/yd fabric I got from Wal-Mart. I'm glad I did.
However, this is why my weight is less than the advertised pack weight.
I think I was using 1.1 oz (37 g/sq m) ripstop, not 2.2 (74 g/sq m).
And the fabric I used to replace the heavyweight portion of the pack could not
weigh over 2 oz/yd (67 g/sq m).
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Sewing Background:
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| I've sewn my own shirts for a couple of years now, so I'm not a novice sewer.
However, shirts are a far cry from backpacks.
I was hitting the usual hurdle of not knowing what comes next and why,
just as I did when starting to make my own shirts.
It made it easy to paint myself into a corner, particularly if I skipped a step,
or misinterpreted one.
Backpacks differ from shirts in that one has to do all the nitty gritty stuff FIRST,
before one can start putting a shell together and getting an idea of how it's going to look.
Most of the structural parts go into the seams that hold the shell together,
so the overall shell can't be built up
incrementally as with a shirt.
My personality doesn't like delaying gratification,
so it was frustrating to have to wait so long to see results.
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| Feedback on the G4 Pack Instructions and Pattern: |
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The following is meant to document the hurdles I ran into with the pre-revision version (as of Aug. 8th, 2006) of the
instructions available from Quest Outfitters, which also appeared
on the Gossamer Gear site.
The instructions are originally from Glen Van Peski,
who developed the pack and gave the instructions to the world. Gossamer Gear is a company that
took the design and manufactures ready made packs.
Glen is chairman and chief product designer of Gossamer Gear.
The instructions are free on the internet. The pattern and some
slightly more annotated instructions are for sale from Quest Outfitters,
along with a kit containing all fabric and notions if one so desires.
Quest is also in the process of taking those instructions and the
pattern and revamping them to sell on their site.
I ran into several hurdles with this backpack and I believe others interested in making this pack may want to learn
from my experience, and may even want to note some parts I had trouble with before cutting out their parts.
This represents my own problems and solutions with this project.
As I found from reading online discussion groups, some other people seemed to do ok with the instructions as they stand. And then again, some did not.
Quest was very helpful in helping me iron out problems after I realized there was a problem.
Also, I'm only covering the exceptions here, where I think clarification is needed, not each step. |
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STEP 1: Cutting out the material
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| Not being able to bear waiting for the Quest pattern to arrive,
I first cut out some fabric with the instructions from the Gossamer Gear site.
The shoulder straps were the only part of the GG instructions that I was not able
to cut out satisfactorily since they seemed to leave out a few critical dimensions
that would allow me to accurately replicate their drawing. I was glad when I got the pattern.
Another person I talked to was able to use some computer tricks to print out
the pattern piece as drawn, full-size, but I didn't ask for details as I had my
pattern from Quest at that point. |
Step 1.4: HOOK AND LOOP (H&L)
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| The instructions call for taking 3/4" (20 mm) H&L (hook-and-loop)
and cutting it down the center to create a 3/8" (10mm) wide pair.
Cutting the 3/4" (20mm) in half will cause it to unravel.
I had this happen as I was trying to sew the cut edge.
Also, having to sew within the hook area of the hook strip (which is unavoidable
is when the strip is cut down the middle) was problematic for my sewing machine.
I experienced cutting of the thread, bird nests, etc, while trying to sew the hook strips.
Experienced sewers on a usenet group verified this problem, which they said was common.
I learned it is better to sew within the 1/8" (3 mm) border at the edges of the proper width strips.
I'm able to do this well now, but in the past I've used special sewing feet to help facilitate this.
I used a contrasting color between the fabric and the H&L, and will consider doing this again in the future.
Trying to sew black H&L on black material is not that easy when I'm shooting for a 1/8" (3 mm) margin.
Supposedly there's some 3/8" (10 mm) sew-on H&L out there, according to someone on the sewing newsgroup.
Most references I found for that width were for adhesive backed products.
Another option would be to adapt the pattern to increase the seam allowance to 5/8" (15mm)
for the shoulder straps and waist belts, or at least at the place where the H&L goes,
and then use 1/2" (13 mm) H&L.
I bought some 1/2" (13 mm) H&L strips for waist belt
and shoulder straps from another supplier online, and it is also available from
www.questoutfitters.com.
5/8" (16 mm) is readily available in retail sewing stores.
I used this on my first version of the pack, as shown in this document.
The instructions call for a bar tack at each end of the H&L opening (Step 2.6).
I sewed the bar tack the same width as the wider H&L, but it "necked" the internal
cavity down at those points. If I were only stuffing socks into the straps,
this would not present a problem. But, as I was using some formed foam, I found the
long bar tack limited the width of the foam I was able to insert.
I think what I should have done here was to just do the bar tack for only about 1/4" (6 mm).
I don't think the full width was necessary.
Next time, if I decide from the outset that I am going to use some foam,
and leave it in permanently, I could dispense with the H&L opening all together
and just insert the foam through the open end of the strap before it's sewn to
the back of the pack.
In the future, if I'm stuck with only 3/4" (20mm) and have to cut it into 3/8" (10mm) strips,
here's three different tips I compiled on doing this:
1) Seal the cut edge of the H&L over a flame.
2) Make small tack stitches to hold the H&L in place. Turn the fabric/H&L over to
where the fabric is on top and sew from the back, using a zigzag stitch.
3) And, as I discovered, don't put the cut edge of the H&L against the outside
edge of the material. This way, both pieces won't become unraveled at the same time. |
Go Back to Top
Step 2: SHOULDER STRAPS
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| LAYOUT OF GROSGRAIN LOOPS AND H&L (HOOK-AND-LOOP) |
| Step 2.1: Despite what the instructions say about cutting a slotted tab
on the edge of the shoulder strap,
I did not find this to be necessary.
The instructions for laying out the grosgrain loops are almost non-existent.
Diagrams would have helped. The pattern gives a position for them,
but little instruction on how to place them. For someone new to this endeavor,
a little help was needed, which I got from an online backpacking discussion site.
But I only sought out help after I got a bit "creative" placing them myself.
|
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| Here's a photo of the layout of the grosgrain loops, and the H&L as I finally laid it out.
The shiny side is the WRONG side, or inside. |
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| Step 2.3: In my opinion, the instructions are wrong where they say to
sew the H&L on the
WRONG side of the fabric. I think it should go on the RIGHT side.
The following photo demonstrates what happened when I followed the two steps
(2.1, cut the tab, and 2.3, sew to wrong side) as shown in the instructions.
Its a little hard to tell here, but the H&L is on the inside.
This is the only way I could see to have the H&L meet in order to seal it, if following the instructions: |
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Step 2.4: Walking Foot
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| I was lucky to already have a walking foot to deal with the slick fabric I was using.
This photo shows the difference between sewing a shoulder strap with a walking foot (bottom),
and without (top). |
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| A walking foot helps for any fabric where it is essential to get things lined up exactly.
I found it a worthwhile expenditure. |
 |
Step 2.9: Webbing for Shoulder straps
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| At first I made a mistake by only folding the square once and attaching it to the strap. The square piece of fabric needs to be folded TWICE,
to make a smaller triangle. In the instructions, there are two diagrams showing to fold it twice,
but it does not say the same in the written instructions. I was concentrating on reading and missed it.
|
Go Back to Top
| Step 3.1 - Waist Belts: refer to same warnings for the shoulder straps. |
|
That pattern I got from Quest Outfitters had the length of the waist belt pattern pieces
at 11" (28 cm) long. The instructions show a small scale drawing and a dimension of 12" (30 cm)
I went with the 12" (30 cm) and now have little room for tightening the strap.
11" (28 cm) would have worked better for me. I have a 34-35" (86 - 91 cm) waist. |
Go Back to Top
| Step 4: Back (Oxford Cloth) |
| Step 4.1.1: Attaching the Haul Loop | | I was so ready to put the shoulder straps on, I got kinda excited and skipped this step at first.
I ended up sewing the haul loop on top of the shoulder straps instead of under them.
I guess it's not a big deal because everything still gets covered over with a dressing piece,
but that's just one less layer of stitching to hold the haul loop. |
| Step 4.2.1: Attaching Shoulder strap tops |
DISCREPANCIES BETWEEN THE INSTRUCTIONS AND THE PATTERN
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| The instructions from Gossamer Gear give positioning for the shoulder straps
which differ from the lines sketched out on the old pattern from Quest.
The pattern shows them closer together, with corners touching, and higher up on the pack than the instructions. |
 |
| I called Quest Outfitters to get their feedback on this.
They could not contact the person who developed the pattern or instructions,
so they contacted someone who has made several G4 packs.
The following is an excerpt from the email I got from Kay at Quest:
"...I just got a hold of someone who has made many of the G4's and she said the
straps can be done one of two ways. If the person using the pack is on the smaller side
the points of the straps should be touching each other (she is 5'2" (1.6 m), 120 pounds (54 kg)
and that is the way she does hers). If it is for a larger guy they should be
separated like the instructions say. She said there is no set-in-stone science to it."
I followed the instructions this time, instead of the pattern. |
| Step 4.3: Pad Holders |
| Next time I cut out the mesh for the pad holders, I will err on long side.
My attempt here was too short, even though I followed the directions.
I now know that this is due to the mesh being too stretchy, and the pad holders being too close together.
As a result, the mesh pieces would not adequately hold the pad in when all was sewn together.
I ended up sewing a grosgrain strap to the top mesh, and H&L on both the end of the strap
and at the top of the bottom mesh. This allows me to pull them together so the mesh will hold.
I think this is pretty ugly right now, so I will either undo some seams and fix it,
or just do it better on the next pack.
I also don't like the undressed edge of the mesh, as designed, and would probably enclose it with something next time. |
 |
| Step 4.3.5: | | On the bottom pad holder, for the part that is not sewn into the seam,
but just sewn down to the back panel, the design leaves some exposed edges of the mesh
between the horizontal
grosgrain strap and the angled-in part of the back.
If I do another one, I will probably consider putting some short grosgrain covers
over this exposed edge, BEFORE I sew down the 16" (41 cm) horizontal piece of grosgrain, so that the ends of the added strips can be covered. |
| Figure 12 |
| Step 4.4.2: | | The instructions show the lashing loops going directly on the ripstop.
The lashing loops go on top of mesh, not under. Otherwise they'll be inaccessible.
The first time I trimmed the strap gusset, I also cut the webbing off. This was wrong.
Even though the photo shows not to cut it (if studied closely), it was a little confusing to me.
|
Go Back to Top
| Step 5.1 - Mesh Pockets | | The instructions show the lashing loops being sewn directly to the ripstop.
The top two definitely go over the ripstop because there's no mesh there.
The bottom two, if constructed as per the directions, will be INSIDE the front mesh pocket.
This might be a legitimate design feature.
At the end of the instructions (Step 9.1.4), they say to tie the shock cord straps to the
bottom lashings loops on the front of the pack. This is to secure the rain guard over the
slide closure. Perhaps this is extra protection against getting the shock cords snagged
on branches or something. I feel the lashing loops should go outside the mesh for more
versatility. I went with the roll-top closure instead, so I'm assuming I won't be using the
rain guard anyway. |
| Step 5.2: Front Pocket |
| 5.2.2: Shock Cord Channel | - | I found this part a little tough to do, but I was using 1.1 oz ripstop.
In the future I would use some glue stick to hold the tube together before stitching.
Also, the diagram pointing to the right side of the ripstop, etc, was a bit cramped and confusing.
In the end, the side with the ripstop tube is supposed to go inside the pocket. |
| 5.2.4: The wrong side of the mesh goes against the right side of the ripstop. |
| 5.3.1: Double Stitch - I looked all over the web and asked on a couple of sewing
groups what this meant. No one had a definitive answer.
I just did two parallel lines of stitching. Quest said I could do that, or just sew over
the line I just sewed. |
Go Back to Top
| Step 6.1 the wrong side of the mesh goes against the right side of the rip-stop.
That 1/2" (12 mm) opening at the bottom of the side pocket, I believe,
is to facilitate sewing the pocket to the ripstop by allowing it to lie flatter at that corner.
I don't think it's an exit hole for a tube from the bladder, as I first thought. |
Go Back to Top
| Step 7: Attaching the sides, front and back |
| In the instructions from Quest, they insert a little box here saying that some experienced
G4 pack makers recommend doing step 7.2, then 7.4, then 7.1, and finally 7.3.
This warning is not in the instructions from the Gossamer Gear site.
This is the way I did it because I figured trying to reinforce that waist belt attachment
to the side panel would go a lot easier if the shell was not closed up yet.
The instructions are a bit vague here too about what to do. Here's what I did, after I
screwed up. |
| Step 7.2: | | I started sewing at the back "angle point",
going down the back of the pack.
I sewed down from the back, sewing the bottom side panel to the back panel, until I got
to within an inch or so from the edge of the bottom seam. I did that on both back sides. |
| Step 7.4: Here I followed the directions from Quest. |
| Step 7.1: | | Then, starting at the front "angle point",
I did the same on the front as I did on the back,
but stopped about 2 inches (5 cm) or more from the bottom of the front panel.
There is extra length in the front panel to allow that bottom seam to be formed more easily,
so one does not have to be so exact. |
| Step 7.3: | | After I did that much, I was able to hold the front and back pieces together
and see how much extra ripstop I had. I pinned and sewed the seam (with the ice ax loop sticking INTO the pack,
not outside), trimmed the excess ripstop, sewed the remaining open places at the side panel,
and I was done with that part. Then I followed the instructions for bar tacks and double stitching. |
Go Back to Top
I did not really run into problems with the rest of the pack, which is the collar and closure.
Testing of the pack:
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| At work I loaded the pack with a sleeping bag at the bottom then put 30 lb (13.5 kg)
of weight in the upper part of the bag.
This was more than I wanted to hang on my shoulders. It gave me the odd feeling of cutting
off my breath.
I removed 10 lb (4.5 kg), going down to 20 lb (9 kg), and this felt more manageable.
I think the issue is that I have a longer torso length for my size than most people,
and the straps were not held high enough due to inadequate length between the waist belt
and the straps.
I tried the pack out on a hike on Sep. 16th, 2006, for about 5 miles (8 km). I had about 15-20 lb (7-9 kg) in it, which consisted of a bulky coat in the bottom, loosely packed food above that,
and a filled 3 L (3 QT) hydration bladder.
My shoulders felt fine at this weight. However, I did run into a problem when
I took off the pack at lunch. When I went to put it back on my back, I could not get the sleeping pad to stay
in the mesh pad holders. It kept popping out. Through inspection, I realized that,
with items very loosely packed inside,
and nothing with any real structure to it, the pack was sagging outwards,
collapsing the sleeping pad, and popping the pad loose. This was in spite of the grosgrain strap and H&L I added to hold things together.
Luckily I had some shock cord with me. I tied it around the middle of the pack,
encompassing both the pack and the sleeping pad.
This allowed me to sling the pack onto my back with no problem.
I now see with certainty that the mesh I used for the pad holders is too weak,
and the pad holders are too close together by a small amount. I have some stretch
fabric that I intend to replace the mesh with, and may look at adjusting
the distance between the pad holders at the same time.
I intend to experiment a bit with adding a frame to the pack so I can add some load lifters.
I'm currently dabbling with
a PVC pipe frame, which will maybe add about 8 oz (227 g) to the weight, but can possibly be
used as tent poles with the proper connectors.
The designer of the pack recommends inserting either aluminum or carbon fiber
arrow shafts into the folds of the sleeping pad, for adding structure to the pack. |
Go Back to Top
| Conclusion: |
| I can appreciate how difficult it might be for
proficient pack designers to put together instructions for neophytes.
Many people seem to have tackled this project without the stumbling blocks that I had.
Others did not, as I found out from an online discussion group. I was not "dissatisfied"
with the product. It all worked out in the end,
particularly since I did a prototype first with some inexpensive fabric.
Quest was great in helping me, and in calling others in the G4 community to get clear answers back to me.
They are in the process of redoing the pattern and instructions, with more diagrams and photos,
and cohesiveness between the instructions and the pattern. I hope to review that too. |
Go Back to Top
Likes about this pattern:
1) Being my first outdoor project, I learned a lot about conceptualizing how things go together.
2) Quest was very helpful when I asked.
3) It's much bigger than I thought.
Dislikes about this pattern:
1) There were numerous vague areas.
2) Some instructions just seemed plain wrong.
3) I wasted a little Cordura bumbling through trying to get the shoulder straps done. |
Read more reviews of Quest Outfitters gear
Read more gear reviews by Dwight Shackelford
|
